fulie 17%-19%-20%?
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fulie 17%-19%-20%?
O parere pt fulie la supraalimentare va rog...17%, 19% sau 20%?
Mini Cooper S/MB S500
Re: fulie 17%-19%-20%?
Mai mare sau mai mica?marius_mxm scrie:O parere pt fulie la supraalimentare va rog...17%, 19% sau 20%?
Daca e sa fie mai mica m-am uitat pe la niste americani si comentau ceva legat de fluierat la compresor la -20% si de umblat pe la injectoare marite, si stii ca aia sunt fani la compresoare, ar fi in stare sa puna unul si pe masina de tuns iarba.Drumul batut este cu -17%,si softul este consacrat.
Mai jos este o masina din Bucuresti
http://www.dragracing.ro/forum/index.php?topic=592.0
Masina: Mini Cooper S R53, 1598cc compresor.
Modificari:
fulia compresorului inlocuita cu una cu 19% mai mica
fulia de la arbore usurata ( fara masa inetiala )
kit "aprindere" MSD: bobina de inductie cu voltaj marit, fise bujii 8.5 mm, bujii reci Denso Iridium IK22.
garnitura chiulasa JCW
chiulasa portata ( cu 2mm in diametru marit fiecare canal: admisie si evacure )
volanta single-mass 5.7kg, placa presiune heavy duty, ambreiaj sport cu 6 palete, toate ACT.
Injectoare 450cc Cosworth
E ceva de lucru nu?
Real motors need forced induction
Nobody's perfect but if you drive a MINI Cooper F54 with B47 engine ,you're pretty damn close
Petrol is for cleaning tools, with Diesel we make Power
Nobody's perfect but if you drive a MINI Cooper F54 with B47 engine ,you're pretty damn close
Petrol is for cleaning tools, with Diesel we make Power
Re: fulie 17%-19%-20%?
Inca ceva pareri legate de -20%
Boldurile sunt de retinut.
Supercharger Redline
After discussions with several different engineers at several different manufacturers, the redline of the supercharger is in the neighbor hood of 17,200 RPM - depending on which one you talk with. More than 15% at a redline of 7200 RPM on the motor will put you right at that. Using 15% keeps it at roughly 17,100 RPM (again depending on who you talk with). This could be avoided by limiting the motor RPM, but because the horspower curve does not peak below redline, this would also limit your overall output.
Efficiency
It takes horsepower to make horsepower. What I mean by that is that there is a break-even point to where you are creating a lot of drag to make the boost. The more boost you are making using a supercharger gives more drag. Up to a point, the trade off is acceptable - you make 25 horsepower but it costs 10 to get the supercharger to push that much air, so the net gain is 15. Eventually, it will cost you more to make the power than you get back. This is only a minor reason not to go smaller, but it is part of the big picture. Heat can also fall into this category because of the way the air is moved. To make the boost, the Eaton creates quite a bit of heat - and the more boost is made, the more heat is generated. The heat reduces the density of the intake charge, and therefore costs power. This again is a balancing act - the boost makes power, but the heat caused by genereating the boost costs power. That is one of the reasons the intercooler is such an important option on this car - either cooling it externally (CO2 for instance) or making it more efficient.
Belt Life
When going smaller on the pulley diameter, you have more belt rap on the pulley. This may cause some belt interval issues, but I haven't seen that, and from the other guys I've talked with, they haven't either. It could be a significant enough reason though.
Water Pump
The water pump is driven by the supercharger, so if you reduce the pulley on the supercharger, you are spinning the water pump and the supercharger faster. Unless you change the angle of the blades in the water pump, at some point, the pump will be spinning fast enough to stall the blades - causing cavitation. This has yet to be an issue even at the 17% reduction some of the Euro guys are trying out.
The JCW pulley is 2.21 " in diameter, and the 15% reduction pulley is 2.17", so it is basically a wash - they use a pulley just like we do. The rotors are coated with graphite (not Teflon) instead of the epoxy coating on the S M45. The efficiency is very close to being the same on both types of coatings.
I hope that helps answer some of the questions - great question by the way.
Si inca
the only way to really tell is to try one out.
There was concern also that the 15% pulley would cavitate, over-re the blower, produce too much parasitc loss to be worth it, etc.
P&D made the 15%, a 10% and a few 20% pulley(s at customer special request) and all have worked fine. Physical size is a definite limit, but we did get to 20%. It is a bolt on to the same hub. no belt slippage problems, but a shorter belt is required (it should be used with the 15% anyway.)
As far as cavitation and over-revving the blower, my advice is to lower the redline by 5% (350rpm) when using the 20% pulley. The most useful gain you will get will be in the mid-range to redline where the motor will be running 99% of the time anyway, plus the extra 55 will bring on the boost that much sooner.
Boldurile sunt de retinut.
Supercharger Redline
After discussions with several different engineers at several different manufacturers, the redline of the supercharger is in the neighbor hood of 17,200 RPM - depending on which one you talk with. More than 15% at a redline of 7200 RPM on the motor will put you right at that. Using 15% keeps it at roughly 17,100 RPM (again depending on who you talk with). This could be avoided by limiting the motor RPM, but because the horspower curve does not peak below redline, this would also limit your overall output.
Efficiency
It takes horsepower to make horsepower. What I mean by that is that there is a break-even point to where you are creating a lot of drag to make the boost. The more boost you are making using a supercharger gives more drag. Up to a point, the trade off is acceptable - you make 25 horsepower but it costs 10 to get the supercharger to push that much air, so the net gain is 15. Eventually, it will cost you more to make the power than you get back. This is only a minor reason not to go smaller, but it is part of the big picture. Heat can also fall into this category because of the way the air is moved. To make the boost, the Eaton creates quite a bit of heat - and the more boost is made, the more heat is generated. The heat reduces the density of the intake charge, and therefore costs power. This again is a balancing act - the boost makes power, but the heat caused by genereating the boost costs power. That is one of the reasons the intercooler is such an important option on this car - either cooling it externally (CO2 for instance) or making it more efficient.
Belt Life
When going smaller on the pulley diameter, you have more belt rap on the pulley. This may cause some belt interval issues, but I haven't seen that, and from the other guys I've talked with, they haven't either. It could be a significant enough reason though.
Water Pump
The water pump is driven by the supercharger, so if you reduce the pulley on the supercharger, you are spinning the water pump and the supercharger faster. Unless you change the angle of the blades in the water pump, at some point, the pump will be spinning fast enough to stall the blades - causing cavitation. This has yet to be an issue even at the 17% reduction some of the Euro guys are trying out.
The JCW pulley is 2.21 " in diameter, and the 15% reduction pulley is 2.17", so it is basically a wash - they use a pulley just like we do. The rotors are coated with graphite (not Teflon) instead of the epoxy coating on the S M45. The efficiency is very close to being the same on both types of coatings.
I hope that helps answer some of the questions - great question by the way.
Si inca
the only way to really tell is to try one out.
There was concern also that the 15% pulley would cavitate, over-re the blower, produce too much parasitc loss to be worth it, etc.
P&D made the 15%, a 10% and a few 20% pulley(s at customer special request) and all have worked fine. Physical size is a definite limit, but we did get to 20%. It is a bolt on to the same hub. no belt slippage problems, but a shorter belt is required (it should be used with the 15% anyway.)
As far as cavitation and over-revving the blower, my advice is to lower the redline by 5% (350rpm) when using the 20% pulley. The most useful gain you will get will be in the mid-range to redline where the motor will be running 99% of the time anyway, plus the extra 55 will bring on the boost that much sooner.
Real motors need forced induction
Nobody's perfect but if you drive a MINI Cooper F54 with B47 engine ,you're pretty damn close
Petrol is for cleaning tools, with Diesel we make Power
Nobody's perfect but if you drive a MINI Cooper F54 with B47 engine ,you're pretty damn close
Petrol is for cleaning tools, with Diesel we make Power
- Vali Iovi-Stere
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Re: fulie 17%-19%-20%?
Masina de care pomenesti este la noi pe forum. http://www.mymini.ro/myforum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=64
Re: fulie 17%-19%-20%?
Vali, cand a fost prezentata masina eu nu prea eram prezent pe forum
In alta ordine de idei ,informatia prezentata in engleza mi se pare foarte folositoare, este de bun simt si un ghid bun pentru cei care vor sa faca modificari la motor si ar fi bine sa stie ce-i asteapta ,nu te invata exact cum sa montezi o fulie etc. dar te face sa intelegi consecintele modificarilor la un motor supraalimentat cu compresor Eaton.
Oricum Marius_mxm nu a raspuns daca vrea mai mare sau mai mica,daca era femeie n-as mai fi intrebat,raspunsul ar fi fost evident.
In alta ordine de idei ,informatia prezentata in engleza mi se pare foarte folositoare, este de bun simt si un ghid bun pentru cei care vor sa faca modificari la motor si ar fi bine sa stie ce-i asteapta ,nu te invata exact cum sa montezi o fulie etc. dar te face sa intelegi consecintele modificarilor la un motor supraalimentat cu compresor Eaton.
Oricum Marius_mxm nu a raspuns daca vrea mai mare sau mai mica,daca era femeie n-as mai fi intrebat,raspunsul ar fi fost evident.
Real motors need forced induction
Nobody's perfect but if you drive a MINI Cooper F54 with B47 engine ,you're pretty damn close
Petrol is for cleaning tools, with Diesel we make Power
Nobody's perfect but if you drive a MINI Cooper F54 with B47 engine ,you're pretty damn close
Petrol is for cleaning tools, with Diesel we make Power
Re: fulie 17%-19%-20%?
Pai nu cred ca se mai baga la modificat, pentru ca a pus masina la vanzare.
Re: fulie 17%-19%-20%?
17% all the way fara nici o modificare doar cu filtru kn drop in si 1 ball exhaust sper sa obtin 200 cai
Va anunt dupa ce vin piesele si o pun pe dino
Va anunt dupa ce vin piesele si o pun pe dino
M.C.S - FLX
Re: fulie 17%-19%-20%?
Dupa softarea facuta de Adrian pot sa va zic ca fara soft esti la jumatatea drumului, cu toate ca se simte diferenta doar cand se monteaza piesele cu soft totul devine muult mai interesant....
M.C.S - FLX
Re: fulie 17%-19%-20%?
vezi ca e promotie la racing code pt masurarea puterii pe dyno. ar fi interesant de vazut care este diferenta si pe hartie.
"PUTEREA BATE CUPLU PT CA TOT TIMPUL VEI GASI O TREAPTA INFERIOARA UNDE SA O PUI"
ACS C30 - gone
D22 for sale https://www.olx.ro/oferta/nissan-np300- ... cbr5b.html
Chevy Colorado V6 LT
ACS C30 - gone
D22 for sale https://www.olx.ro/oferta/nissan-np300- ... cbr5b.html
Chevy Colorado V6 LT
Re: fulie 17%-19%-20%?
Ai perfecta dreptate,trebuia un dyno fara fulie, unul cu fulie si unul cu fulie si soft.io's scrie:vezi ca e promotie la racing code pt masurarea puterii pe dyno. ar fi interesant de vazut care este diferenta si pe hartie.
Am un Dyno Scan Tool, faci testul dyno cu laptopul in miscare,dar din ce am mai citit are o eroare de 3% plus sau minus, n-ar fi mare.Problema n-ar fi asta, setarile initiale pe care trebuie sa le introduci ,acolo sunt o groaza de date incepand de la marimea anvelopelor, temperatura ext. pana la chestii mai greu de gasit referitoare la masina testata.Plus de asta este periculos de unul singur in masina, trebuie sa fii 2 persoane, asta ingreuneaza si automat da eroare.Am incercat pe Skoda sa fac un test, dar graficul Nm/HP, nu arata tocmai convingator, mai ales ca stiam ce cuplu si putere am pe masina.
Desigur testul pe un dyno stand este cel mai bun mai ales daca este si MAHA si este calibrat corespunzator.
Real motors need forced induction
Nobody's perfect but if you drive a MINI Cooper F54 with B47 engine ,you're pretty damn close
Petrol is for cleaning tools, with Diesel we make Power
Nobody's perfect but if you drive a MINI Cooper F54 with B47 engine ,you're pretty damn close
Petrol is for cleaning tools, with Diesel we make Power